This looks like a great project. I would like to do something simalar to it when time and cash are available.
I was wondering if there is a posibility of running two smaller size gasifiers instead of one massive gasifier. My thinking is the fuel capacity would be greater and if sized right you could achieve the fuel requirements of the large engine. Thats just me thinkin though.
I will be following this one closly.
Good Luck with your build
Wow Brent, that's quite a truck. I would highly recommend Wayne's system for that setup, it would be a great fit. He has put thousands of miles on his carb'd 460 Ford farm truck, and it will pull! With the fuel injection and high compression engine you are all set.
Don't take this the wrong way... I'm really excited for you and want to see you succeed. You have a great opportunity here. I want to bring up a few issues, and hopefully save you some effort.
Have you looked at Wayne's trucks? They are as clean and unobtrusive as they come. Plus they work better than most others... but that's another issue, I'm just talking asthetics and practicality. While you do have other options, it will force you to do some needless rearranging and make some compromises. It's up to you.
Here's the obvious problems with what you're proposing. A squat gasifier on the bumper the height of a tailgate will not make much gas, will have very little hopper capacity, and will be uglier than you want to admit. Filtration equipment will also be undersized. Gas connections will have to be flexible in order to pivot. It adds about 2-3 feet to the length of the truck, may interfere with the towing capacity and vehicle handling. Bumper mounts have certainly been done, but not usually on a pickup and certainly not that short. Once you have the gas you need to cool it. Bigger bumper mount or possibly run it to the front of the truck, reduced cooling capacity either way but can be made to work. Run condensate to a separate tank, probably under the truck. Then it's back to the bumper for filtration and back to the front into the engine.
Now let's say you put it in the bed against the cab, the usual way. It can sit through the bed directly on the frame, adding about 7" to the capacity. You can make it flush with the cab or taller if you like. Total gasifier height will be around 4-5 feet, hopper capacity good for 40-50 miles. This takes up 2 feet of bed length, leaving lots of room for supplies and fuel. Gasifier is bolted securely to the frame and connections do not move. The unit is camoflaged by a cooling rack extending full height for 2 feet and half-height for the rest of the way. This rack serves for gas cooling and carbon settlement as well as getting the gas to the back of the bed, and down underneath to the condensate tank. After that it goes under the truck back up into the hay filter, mounted in the bed on the left of the gasifier. From there to the engine.
One thing you might consider with all the custom work, is that TBIs and carburetors tend to get sooted up over time with the woodgas, and can be hard to clean. Can you arrange a separate entrance for the woodgas (underneath) or upgrade to MPFI? If so then you've got it made.
Another consideration is the plumbing underneath. You will have lots of room with that lift kit but also in rough terrain. The usually recommended PVC pipes may not stand up to abuses on the trail. Just watch where you put them, buy quality pipe and fittings, and maybe use steel pipe for the vulnerable areas.
Hope this helps and again, not criticizing just trying to save you grief in the long run. We want to see that baby burning wood!!
edit: post has been shortened
no real important info was here
I understand your setup better now. Hadn't realized it was a Bronco/roof over back area - and no cab wall. Yes you will need to keep it out of the bed in that case. Several more comments but the most important is that Wayne is running a much advanced system over the Imbert and you would be wise to explore the possibilities. His unit is made from drums and comes out to about 50" tall, which is around a barrel and a half. Hay filter is smaller diameter, 16" or so water heater tank. Could be shortened some. Let me know if you're interested in the details, I can hook you up.
Gotta run, keep thinking and planning. Some sketches of your intended layout would be great.
WOW, What a nice truck!!
It looks like it is too nice a truck to build your first gasifier on. Even if you have a perfect gasifier mounted on the truck that is 25% of the equation. 75% is the operator knowledge, experience ect.
Operating a gasified vehicle for the first time is like learning to ride a bicycle, you will fall and skin your knees a couple of times.
The truck looks too good to be used to learn.
My advise would be save the bronco for your second build. Buy a one or two thousand dollar truck to do your first build on. I think if you ask some of the other old folks, Mike Larosa or Woody and Sean they would agree with me.
That's a nice truck you have there. I have to agree with Wayne here it's just to nice for your first build. I would stay with a pickup for your first build and put some miles under your belt first. Come back to this one later on. I drive a 2003 f150 everyday on Woodgas however it was not my first truck. Dodge and Chevys do real well BBB Sean
edit nothing important was here
I would definatly think this one over for a minute. No one is saying it can't be done this is a great truck for Woodgas. When learning Woodgas it takes some time to build skill to learn the do's and don'ts. There are good people to help you along the way with every detail and choosing a truck is the first step. I learned on an old GMC sierra 350 v8 with an 8 ft. Bed awesome truck wish I still had it. I have a ford that I run daily on wood.
Wayne also runs Woodgas everyday sometimes hauling trailers for the farm or out to dinner in one of his little dakotas. I will put a pic. Of my ford up so you can see to help with your choice this truck has a 6ft. Bed v6 engine BBBSean
What year was your GM truck and why did you like it so much?
Did it have enough power or would it have been better with a 454 in it?
I'm looking at maybe buying a crew cab 93.
Hello Loyd, The gmc was a 1988 I liked everything about that truck not limited to anyone option. I never drove one with a 454 so I can't say. That truck had tons of power I could haul anything anywhere with it. That 93 will work good anything up to 96 is fine. Sean
brent a 20mm ammo can is pretty god size and there not to bad on price.
im in the same boat as you one more final tomorrow and i get my diploma
then its fun time!
soon as i get some other materials together im going to start on my f150
I have read over your post four times now and each time I read it I still come up with the advice of don’t do it. Many times you state that you love the truck and will keep it forever and your Dad gave it to you. I would advise you to get a thousand dollar truck gasifiy it and drive it a year before going to the bronco.
In the premium section we have no designs for a bumper build but we have a lot of detailed information for building a gasifier behind the cab.
ya Brent defiantly, biggest difference from my truck to yours is engine displacement and wheel base. my truck has the mazda 5 speed and a borg warner 1356 transfer case man that thing will crawl in 4 low for having 3.55 gears out back. huge amounts of room to route everything. need to check with Mr. kieth about using the same size gasifier as his 318 dakota considering my usual drive to work consists of 65-70mph highway driving. that and getting my cruze control working
The YouTube video shows what I think is a charcoal gasifier running a 1 to 5 hp engine? (I can't read that language.) One other video shows water injection. A truck-sized unit would need a very large amount of charcoal. I wonder how a Wayne Keith unit would react to a hopper full of 100% charcoal? Might get really hot! The design in the video if used for a large engine would probably require a special nozzle out of ceramic...That video was a new one for me, and I subscribed to his channel. Good find, Thanks.
nothing important was here
Truely man woodgas can only be learned by using it. Very tricky especially with YouTubes and Blogs to sort out the "Ran Once" from the "Use Daily" until you've had quite a bit of experience.
It is MUCH more than just a collection of barrels, cans and concepts.
Sigh. Your car radiator idea will fail in short order. It will clog with soot deposits. Not my opinion. At least five modern Internet searchable examples of "moderns" having to relearn what they learned back in the 30's and 40's. All woodgas Cooler piping and tubing must be big and accessible for swabbing and flushing out. Internet info put up you will see this as builders earlier works having a car radiator. Quietly later dropped and later work switched over to a vertical or horizontal large fabricated tube rack. And later yet, with BIG learned needed access ports. Experience teaches . . . or you quit and move on to something Corporate $ and Government spoon fed easy.
Really a shame to see you spending all of this time, money and energy on the wrong end of the woodgas power equation.
Won't say good luck. I do wish you the perseverance to see this through to the end. Make a real man out of you if you can dig down and have the strength and stick-to-iveness to make woodgas work to make an engine run spinning a shaft for useable power.
PS: Re-search for 460 Fords used for statioary power generation. Has/Is being done in at least two different woodgas applications. They call these their "Big Lung Engines".
AND Mr Wayne certainly IS still running a woodgas converted 460 pickup. Just put up 5-7 year Son and Dog aged pictures of his rig in the Premium? or Members Pictures section here.
Pics referred to:
i just know in the end if this bronco is going to live up to its zombie apocalypse death machine theme it cant rely on big oil to keep feeding that 460, so biomass is the perfect solution!
And how long do you expect to remain the proud owner of a woodgas car in case of a TSHTF scenario? Better not to be on the road by then and remove some crucial parts from the car and hide them.
Driving on woodgas is fun during good times or a slowing economy. Driving on woodgas is even more fun when gas prices go through the roof of on minor fuel scarcity. But if the world falls apart, stay away from the road.
Good advice DJ. Sue and I figure we'll be delivering meals to the other seniors .. Mike L
Edited this comment on 6/17/2012 for thread brevity. I can no longer follow this picture dense of a load up on my dial-up so no longer feel my comments are contributory. Hopefully this will help other with down loading Brets project.
Interesting points Steve. Certainly, there are scenarios in which tooling around in your wood gasser would make you a target. Others won't. Certainly, in more probable scenarios like gas rationing or just high fuel prices, a well camouflaged wood gasser would be handy to have. As for extreme WROL, an aircraft is about the best way to get out of dodge, assuming there s no one waiting up here to shoot you down.
We have been planning for years for what might happen and have understood the need to go into a state of voluntary poverty. Keeping under the radar and out of the spot light. Not letting others know of your bounty for they will not have any problem taking it fron you by any means necessary. I have been in countrys during times of political unrest and strife, you see the true "mother bears" wanting to feed their cubs. Life has little value, but your belongings do. People tend not to steal from the poor, they go to those that have. Be a have not in the eyes of others, have enough rounds for your weapons and you have a chance. We have old bicycles (more then 20) to ride to the river and plan on loosing some rather then our lives. Sorry for getting off topic, but I am passionate about this,
Harvest in circles
I am going too say this now so you will remember this post later after you have tried all of the above. NON OF IT WILL WORK!!! The thoughts and images that are flashing through my head are horrible. You couldn't have picked a harder path to choose either you have lots of $$$$ or you enjoy beating yourself up. A wise man said to me "Pain is a wonderful teacher" And brother you are going to experience lots of pain if you follow through with this. I am not trying to be a know-it-all just my 2 cents worth. Put down 100miles on wood today hauling a 3000lbs. trailer at 65mph with a v6 f-150 Regards Sean
Hi Sean, Have my 97 cavalier fully converted now except I have to run pipe from it's mouth end to it's ars end .. I'm looking forward to this one as it will be my first OBD2 conversion. It's also an automatic and I haven't driven one in a couple of years. I ran tests on it tonight to see what it does when the fuel pump and injectors are turned off. So far no codes and the engine keeps rolling. It has a single fuse for the injectors and pump. Regardless, it's fun .. Say hi to your dad for me ... Thanks, Mike
Brent, nice collection of all it takes to build almost anything! The information in the Premium section of this site will absolutely blow your mind. After you view the videos, and look at the photos, and see what others have already put together, you will enter a 23 hour/day building frenzy. Best thing is that end result will work. Find a big ole Ford "beater" truck for $500, build a Wayne Keith unit in the bed, and when all the bugs are out, put a version 2 in that Bronco. You can do it!
You are more than welcome to build this anyway you like. And post everything you learn nothing stopping you here. I just don't see the point of what you are trying to prove. Why would someone go down the wrong path wasting time and money? It just doesn't make sense to me when all of your questions have already been answered. There has been lots of time and money spent putting this website together. With detailed information explaining not only how the system is built. Also why it needs to be built a certain way and operated.
Bring that zombie killer of a truck down to my shop and we can build it together straight custom.
You will be very pleased with the results.
Not only is this your first obd2 project its also the first chevy conversion I have heard of so this should be interesting keep us posted BBB Sean
Hello Mike, Brent, Ray and Sean,
Hey Mike, Sounds like you got it going your way on the cavalier!!
Ray, Thanks much for you post and comments. Coming from folks like you it really means something to me.
Sean Thanks for the post to Brent. You saved me some time typing and trying to spell. The post is exactly what I would have said.
We hauled in 20-25 tons of hay yesterday and then a couple of trips to bring in equipment. Only 75-80 miles I worked the V-10 all day.
The ram is doing good considering a lot of the driving is being done by a 14 year old, pulling a 40 foot trailer and working around bone dry hay in the field and even more around the barn.( not a good place for any type of back fire )
ok, i guess i will comment here... can't say i've built a mobile system yet, but i have had my hand in a few stationary ones.
So, how much wood gas will your engine need? what do you figure your working rpm will be? what size of restriction are you planning on building around?
How far do you plan to drive on a load of wood?
I did watch that vid of the small gasser you posted... no idea what language it was but i'm not sure he was actually burning wood... looked like char to me... and not big char either... you do realize a small engine doesn't need the same cooling as a large one right? you just can't compare that stuff.
Send me 100.00 and i'll draw you up some full sized plans (imbert) for an engine the size you're building working at what ever working rpm you decide. will it make gas? ofcourse it will... will it work? probably. how well? couldn't tell you... but i don't know anyone that is gonna design you're system for you for free... Wayne, your premium site is a steal.... and if i come into some more money soon i'll be asking if i can extend my stay as a life time member.
i wouldn't even comment that the little genset we have running was working well untill it had 100 hrs on it... it's got over 300 now. seems to work fine. have i made tar? ofcourse... you ain't learning anything if you don't. but it's a lot easier to clean and unstick a single cylider briggs.. than that beast you're planning on building... just my 2 cents.
oh, and please don't take this wrong, but if you can't answer those few questions i asked above... you need to read some more
I don't think you under stand... everyone that has commented is trying to help you.
No one here wants you to fail.. period...
you talk about what you want your external dimentions to be but not once say what you're planning to use internally.
I personally do wish you to be successful in running on wood, and i know that everyone here wants you to be too... no one here wants someone to go away with a 'well I tried and it can't be done so it must not work attitude" not saying you'd be like that, but for most people its easier to say that than to admit they made a mistake and should have gone a different route.
O.K. Now my one cent's worth: Brent, I have a nephew with serious ADHD. He says he's going to be an airplane pilot when he grows up, or before. And he probably will. Another one: Years ago I was building a Mandan Indian style earth lodge out on my prairie estate. I had to cut a hundred cottonwood trees and drag them up and put 'em the proper order to become my house. A well-meaning friend spoke up and suggested that it would be a heck of a lot easier to just move in a trailer house.
My point is simple: your plans sound like my nephew on steroids, AND I know and believe that some guys, like me, just have to do things their own way, the hard way. Do it. Take your time. Then take a bow. Make a video. But, by all means, do it.
One's first gasifier should be a copied or stolen, but proven design and dimensioning. Woodgasification is a trinity: man, machine and fuel. Take out machine and fuel by using perfect material and the man will be teached fast by the other two.
Woodgasification has no strict borders that are easily recognized when you step over them. No, you'll discover that once you've passed this broad grey no-mansland and look back in the mirror.
Some pics would be helpful at this point. What have you built so far?
While I suck at math, I come up with 91.54 cfm at 2000rpm based on your engine size...
(and that is imbert math based off DJ's site)
you have a 18" restriction? your area calculations show your r=9
Use soap bubbles to check for leaks. Use vacuum and pressure as some leaks show up either way but not both. You really ought to bone up the 50 bucks for a premium membership so you get the most out of your build. It just amazes me how people will spend thousands in time and money on a gasifier system without the benefit of experienced builders and operators. You will save the fifty bucks many times over and not look like a jackass. Hee Haw.
Hey Chris, does this violate our code of ethics?
"It just amazes me how people will spend thousands in time and money on a gasifier system without the benefit of experienced builders and operators. You will save the fifty bucks many times over and not look like a jackass. Hee Haw."
Am I a jackass? Don't get me wrong, I have recommended the premium membership to people before. All I'm saying is people can build a working gasifier without a premium membership.
I researched gasifiers before building my first producer(2009) and now I have 2 working units.
This isn't the first comment I've seen knocking people for not being a premium member. Is it meant to be insulting? I'm taking it that way.
Woody, that was a little much. Terry, don't be too sensitive.
Look, we offer the Premium membership as an easy way to build a proven system. There are other ways to succeed - they're just harder. If you'd rather forge a new path, fine. It may be more expensive and largely a waste of time, or you may take gasification to a new level. There's no one stopping you from doing it. I would recommend to any beginner to save their valuable energy for building and not spend it reinventing the wheel. But if they choose to ignore my advice and others, so be it.
Brent has clearly stated his intentions, let's watch and see what happens with no further comments. If he asks for help then it's time to speak up.
Best of luck Brent, keep us posted!
I do NOT think it is sensitive to take offense to being called a jack ass. As everyone says "there is more than one way to skin a cat". We should not be little someone for trying a new system. Trying new things can only help everyone. People who are on these forums usually like to do these things themselves, otherwise they would just pull up to a gas pump like all the other sheeple. If it is time saving to spend 50 dollars on plans then why not just spend 15000 dollars and buy a gek which has pretty much a push button start up and reduces a lot of headaches and time.
Ok, so you have a 9inch restriction, if i may ask, how did you come up with this number?
how many nozzles are you looking at installing?
have you calculated their size in relation to the rest of the unit?
how far up in the hearth are you placing your nozzles and what will be their ring diameter?
how big is your reduction zone?
and what is the open area of your grate? it may be too open... just saying is all.
what are you going to use as fuel?
its not really that hard to make gas... it is somewhat harder to make engine grade gas that doesn't have all kinds of tar to gum up the pretty engine. and, tar isn't something you're gonna filter out really.
If I had to choose between hay and cloth I think I would go with hay.
Years back on another gasifier design I used cloth and found it plugged easily. Now the only material I use is hay in the current gasifiers. With that said I am a hay farmer and have a lot of it at hand.
Premium membership is $50 for the book and 6 months, $100 for a year + book, $200 for lifetime + book. More info here: http://driveonwood.com/store
Gareth in england was using the "shammy" drying cloths in one of his filters. Once they got wet they did not let much air flow through. They did not dry very well either because they soaked up the moisture sitting in the bottom. He ended up not using them after only a couple of runs. i have heard house insulationworks well as long as you don't get it wet. House insulation is what I am using now but I haven't run it long enough to give a good report on it.
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