Drive On Wood!

Hi Terry, a couple of years ago when I was investigating gasification whole house wood stoves, the Garn furnace representative told me that the reason their units were made with ¼ inch plain steel is that they will give a 20 year warranty with that simple material. They had tried a heavy thickness stainless steel, but they could not escape stress cracks which formed around joints over time. Wayne has an excellent tip for fighting the intense heat below the nozzles as told to me last year. You’ll have to ask him. You have a professional looking truck. See you soon, Doug

Hi David,

Just wanted to coment on your truck. I had a 93 that I stuffed an SBC 283 into. Advanced Adaptors makes everthing needed for an SBC conversion and it can be done in a weekend or two. When I did my conversion I actually got better fuel mileage believe it or not. It went from 18 mpg's to 24 mpgs. So if your going to run syngas in this puppy the larger engine will help make up for the power loss. With that little 283 I could light the tires on fire!!!

I havent gotten into producer gas in a vehical yet. But I will soon, as soon as I have time I will be developing a unit specific for vehicles and farm equipment.

Here is a Honda I shoe horned a 350 in a while back.

OOPs, I guess I should have checked page 2 to get the latest .. too late ... Mike L

Matt Ryder, Terry, Mike L.
Matt, the Toyota will keep its 4 cyl. Naturally if you could drop a v-8 in there she would haul, but you wouldn't have room for much else. I looked at one prior to this one that had a v-6 and there was next to zero room under the hood for anything else let alone pipe work and mixing valve. There were alot of specific reasons I went with the 22re 4 cyl. Durability, resale value, and the condition of this paticular one to name a few. Terry, thanks for the advice. I think the way I have mine might allow for the 1in of char like you mention. Like I said my 60deg cone comes just under the nozzles. My cone is insulated on the back side with perlite. So who knows. It will be a learning thing. Keep yours together, I can't wait to see it in Indy. Mike L , sounds like your making good progress getting ready for Argos. I hope all goes well for your trip, and everyone else.
David S.

Hey there Terry! Good to hear from ya.

While you got the cone out, I'd take it down to a 5" circle myself. You could use the extra char depth. Probably wouldn't hurt to reinforce that lip too.

Terry, I said that based on the distortion (too much heat) and slow top speed. Bigger size should put you back into usable range and less heat.

5" IIRC is the Imbert recommended size for most V8s. You're on a 4cyl but you're pulling much harder than they with a similar load. If you're putting in a choke plate type restriction, then you'll be able to play around and see what works best for your setup.

Engine size is not always a good indicator of the gas required. An oversimplified example: If a V8 runs 1500 RPMs and a 4cyl runs 3,000 RPMs for a given load, you'll use *roughly* the same amount of gas.

Hi TerryG
I've operated some actual GEK's that you based this on and maybe can add some feedback that would help you decide which way to jump.
1) You are in a time crunch so gonna have to leave the nozzle heights and spacing just as is. Period. So you will have to make up/modify something to drop in back into place. Period. On this design like the original Imberts ALL reduction takes place below the restiction edge. Means this edge gets the absolute highest internal temperatures at the lower oxidiztion zone
2) On this design (hope Mr Pepe is reading) a significant % of the reduction zone volumn is going to be in this drop-in cone or tube. With the balace of reduction zone volumn stacked up in the the grate pile of char.
3) The edge of this tube/cone, since one of the design features of this design ash insulates this peice for its full length is going to be heat hammered with climbing temperatures with NO effective way to controlled bleed off this metals destroing heat out as in the later plate restiction designs like the Sweeds, Finns in the 50's, 60's and 70's eveolved into, Mr Wayne and others now use, and even MikeL heats effectivly uses with his cast double brake rotor designs.

So just as Doug Williams found with his protuding tube Fluidynes with these charateristics you can only make this heat/temperature lip live is with higher heat resistant metals.
I'd suggest a straight 5" or even 6" stainless steel tube welded to your bottom plate if you can find one. 316 be the best common weldable. 304 would do for awhile.
On the bottom plate make the center hole a bit smaller to leave an inside ledge. Now down through this straight walled tube you could drop in min 1/2' thick cast, plate cut out restictors as needed to get you back down to 4". This will also be relaceable to save your ledge lip.
This is actually starght out of the FEMA design papers and on a much larger scale what MR Wayne retained in his design evolution.

Later after reading his book you could decide whether or not to rejigger your air jetting, grate hieght and the important choker (restriction) ledge to rebalace your NOW above and below restiction reduction sections to turn your's into his larger "char bucket" gasifer with his advanced metals cooling allowing back to common carbon steels and incorperated his more advanced thermal re-cycling ideas.

ChrisKY/Mr Wayne I trust I have not let too many cats out of the bag describing this.
Ha! Just a little more book interest teasing out bleed, eh?

THICK SS tube in this area works for a long tome see in my photo album. No speculation here.

Regards
Steve Unruh

Hi back TerryG
IF you are able to also drop your grate down enough to re-establish a similar char reduction zone VOLUMN pile below your NOW then low down restriction shelf it would work siimilar to what you had previously. You may then need a grate edge fence to keep the grate stacked char pile from spilling off to remain active. Gets trcicky here depending on your actual fuel wood ashing content to keep this reduction zone char stack gasses flowable.

The evoled modern Europeans even with thier natural forming slope walls do very little reduction above the restriction plate. Mostly HOT oxidization going on there. Thier less hot now temerature falling reduction convertsion is done below the restiction plate.
Many (not all) "American Method" gasifiers have now split the active reduction zone action at the restirction with some done above the restriction and some done below the restiction. This moves the highest temperature oxidization zone edge up off off and away from the metals and actually this zone trasitioning edge IS a gasifer drawn floating edge transition much like in a charcoaled fueled gasifier.
With all respect - most EU gasifier guys expect for DJ now have not yet grasped or accepted this difference.
They cannot accept as of yet the change from thier decades evolved relitivly small internal volumn demanding high gases velosity systems to a much larger flexibly active internal volumns with quasi-floating zones operating at much lower internal gases velocities.

Well the speeds, power and fuel consumptions are very telling now as more in North America convert to this evolved newer, frankly hated FEMA based concept with air jets now and on huge char bed steroids.

Other features of what will be labled the "Americam Method" I predict will be very LONG path ash settlement separation, LONG path cooling and SOOTS collection passage systems. HUGE condensated removal capabilities. An an attitude to just let the engines eat soots as a fuel. Engine that can't do this last?? Woosie's!!. Get a better soot eating engine system.
Ha! maybe we should instead of letting it evolve quickly into a generalized lumped togather "American Method" strike out and call ourseved the Sooteaters.

Once you read thoer book you will see the WK will be a distinctly separate system with its internal thermal regulation and heat recycling within this overall American Method that folds in the modern MENS fellows here, MikeL's double rotors, The Florida boys and few others I cannot name due to proprietory knowledge.

The NA "Sooteaters".
"Push, Pull, or Get the Hell Out of the Way" The Future is that-a-way - > -> -> ^ ^ ^

You could do this in your envelope packge also I think.
You will not have the time to make ot, and tune it on this go-around though.

Regards
Steve Unruh

Ah! Post edit add. Esasiest way to handle an ash "problem" on a narrow restictive design is to just use a very low ashing wood fuel like most pines and my Doug Fir wood. Fludiynes and GEK's relly hum on these. Origninal Imberts this was the spec factory fuel.
THIS is what will get you there and back on this go-around.
YES FOLKS I AM SAYING THAT A GASIFIER MUST BE SPECIFICALLY DESIGED TO WORK BEST WITH THE VOLATILES VERSUS CHAR VERSUS ASHING OF YOUR PREDOMINENT TO BE USED FUEL WOODS. #1 reason why most designs and advice does NOT seem to trasfer well. The WK is proving to one of the most flexible for these primary gasification factors. S.U.

Hi Terry, Steve and All, This is a good informative post. Terry what would the nozzle hearth separation be after cutting down the cone? 5" seems to be a large restriction for a 4 cy engine , that is what my 300 has but I think I may be able to open it up a little also. My truck gets about 12 mpg, but it tops out at 55-62 mph.
I think my 300 is a soot eater I took the air cleaner off and there was about a cup of soot sitting on the back two barrels but it still runs good on wood.
Steve I wish you could make it to the WG meeting in Argos it would be great to meet you.
Thanks Ron L

Sound great TerryG
You got the point to do whatever you must timely inside your existing envelope to get to Argo's able to run on wood. Ha! After your wheelie tratcor stuff you now have Rep to maintain man. Be sure and take your cut off damage as a boast piece that you do run good 'n hot and hard. Real Hotrodders aways have a separated piston, broken rod, or holed clutch scatter shield saved back for I'm a DOer cred. Woodgasing it is heat destoyed metal damage.
Yes you are correct in the European design thinking the restiction IS THE Rigid demarkation between the oxidization zone and the reduction zone on wood fueled gasifers. But . . . review the Kalle paper and even they conceed that in charcoal gasifer these zones edges float around with system gas demanded draws. FEMA/Stratified/evolved WK acknowledges and uses this floating in a raw fuel wood gasifier. MENS gasifer 40's Baltic marine Eurpean based is Rigid zone thinking based.
Charcoal man Gary Gillmore is doing/has done a lot of woodsaw dust, used motor oil into his air nozzle fuel suppleemening into his two different Gillmore and Simlifier charcoal gasifiers IN ADDITION to his base engine exhaust feed in to force more H and H2 and CH4 fuel gas production for a more balnced, powerfull IC engine frindly composite fuel gasses mix. The two approches are now evoling closer to closer to each other. Look here at Francios Pal's excellant illistrations and pictures of his now made up Brandt gasifier and you can see the Brandt developement team also accept and used floating zone edges With Control. Eg: the air nozzles in the WK system.
What I visualize you are doing now "seems" to almost be approching what StephenA. ans ArvidO are doing with the double row downward air jet nozzle hearth. You might start up some direct correspondences there.

Hey RonL.
Now is old retired man buisest time of the year with 4-5 acres of weeds, grasses to keep mowed continuos tight at least through the July 4th burn-down-the-Town exuberance passes through. Only place in the County allowing any more personal aerial rocket displays. The Town actually sells these and as a Revenue generating souce and people come from miles around buying and using. Only way my insurance complany woulds ever payoff for our adjacent 15 acre timber lot or my cedar shingle sided house and the old wooden farm outbuildings is if I show the "Due Dilligence" in active "fire hazard mangement". I keep harvesting trees back from ever edge falling accross our property lines to nieghbors stuctures for the same liabilty reasons. 100-135 foot tall trees that then means a wider graases/weeds strips to have to maintain.
Then . . . my wife's Gardens . . .she'd beat me man off "woodgas playing around" not here helping.
Then . . . now dry, dry, dry and Hot (low to mid-80'sF - FIRST time in 5 years! Hurrah!) now like we've been the last 2 weeks solid I can get a whole months jump on cutting, splitting and ricking up next winters firewoods to be able to dry/season good and long in the actual Hot six weeks spanning August. Too fire dangerous with low humidty then to be chainsawing and metal on metal wedging.
Thanks anyhow.

Regards
Steve Unruh